homeschool debate | Forums Wiki

HomeSchoolDebate

Speech and Debate Resources and Community
Forums      Wiki
It is currently Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:31 am
Not a member? Guests can only see part of the forums. To see the whole thing (and add your voice!), just register a free account by following these steps.

All times are UTC+01:00




Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 54 posts ]  Go to page 1 2 3 Next

Should NCFCA eliminate outrounds for in-region qualifiers as proposed at the National Championship?
No 88%  88%  [ 45 ]
Yes 12%  12%  [ 6 ]
Total votes: 51
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 3:19 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 3:01 am
Posts: 651
Home Schooled: Yes
Location: Flying a UFO to an undisclosed location ;)
I'm not at Nats, all I've heard is that the NCFCA is mulling eliminating elimination rounds and switching to an 8 round format with the top 16 receiving an invite? Anyone there who can fill us in? This seems crazy.

_________________
John Mark Porter, Alumni
Arx Axiom/Carpe Dictum/Verdict/UADC/HSDC/HSDRC

2011-12 l Porter/Thomason, Light/Porter
2012-13 l Bailey/Porter
2013-14 l Bailey/Porter
2014-15 l Folkert/Porter

2015-16 I Childs/Porter


Last edited by Voice of Reason on Wed Jun 22, 2016 4:11 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 3:38 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 1:57 am
Posts: 124
Home Schooled: Yes
Location: Check your fridge.
Can confirm. They're asking for student feedback, and may use next year as a "trial run."

_________________
Benjamin Vincent, RII Alum
Biola University '21
www.lifeinthesunrise.com

"Everything in this world is either a potato... or not a potato."


Last edited by The Ginga Ninja on Wed Jun 22, 2016 4:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 3:46 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:42 am
Posts: 44
Home Schooled: Yes
Location: Region 6
Lol, Stoa just got a membership boost. It's true.

SO stupid. The idea that this is more accurate than the current system is absurd: teams that consistently win in elimination rounds get lucky, but teams won't get flukey prelim wins or losses?

Glad this is my last year.

This undermines education a lot. Students don't compete for education; they compete for outrounds. They get the educational benefits by going through the experience of competition. This is also less rigorous; it's more likely that flukes will occur without elimination rounds.

_________________
click for details
14-15: Churchman/Wright
19-20
15-16: Churchman/Kauk
46-20

WI Open: 7-1 | 6-0 | 5th
KY: 4-3 | 4-2 | 12th
NC Open: 9-3 | 4-2 | 2nd
WI: 7-1 | 6-0 | 5th
OH: 4-3 | 4-2 | 13th
IL: 5-3 | 4-2 | 7th
Regionals: 5-4 | 3-3 | 4th
Nats: 6-2 | 5-1 | 5th

now coaching
top12gun@gmail.com
-
Chapman/Chapman


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 3:47 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 3:01 am
Posts: 651
Home Schooled: Yes
Location: Flying a UFO to an undisclosed location ;)
And how are they saying this is fair? Sounds like one step closer to participation trophies.
Plus 6 rounds has a big toll, especially on novices. Do we really want to add 2 more rounds? I can say that for myself, I've always lived on adrenaline those rounds, adrenaline that you don't have in prelims.
This is an awful idea.

_________________
John Mark Porter, Alumni
Arx Axiom/Carpe Dictum/Verdict/UADC/HSDC/HSDRC

2011-12 l Porter/Thomason, Light/Porter
2012-13 l Bailey/Porter
2013-14 l Bailey/Porter
2014-15 l Folkert/Porter

2015-16 I Childs/Porter


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 4:14 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 3:01 am
Posts: 651
Home Schooled: Yes
Location: Flying a UFO to an undisclosed location ;)
Does EVERY qualifier tournament have this? If the tournament would have otherwise had 10 rounds (Octas) will it now have only 8? And what happens to the mi lni regions where there are only 14 teams debating? Club protection? Gone. You'll be almost guaranteed to hit everyone. For a region like 3 (I think it's 3), you have one, maybe two tournaments and then what's the point? You've debated everyone already.

_________________
John Mark Porter, Alumni
Arx Axiom/Carpe Dictum/Verdict/UADC/HSDC/HSDRC

2011-12 l Porter/Thomason, Light/Porter
2012-13 l Bailey/Porter
2013-14 l Bailey/Porter
2014-15 l Folkert/Porter

2015-16 I Childs/Porter


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 4:23 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 1:57 am
Posts: 124
Home Schooled: Yes
Location: Check your fridge.
ShaynePC wrote:
It's because the board is a bunch of sycophantic wimps who are afraid of competition because we are a Christian league.


Whoa whoa whoa. Dude. Before you start smearing people with ad hom, get the details. For one, it's not eliminating competitiveness. Placing is based on power matching, but it still exists to the same degree. This doesn't stem from a fear of competition.

There are advantages to this system too. It's a big change, and it's hard to process, but that doesn't excuse senseless personal attacks. We need to consider that the Board has doubtless considered this for a long time, they know the advantages and disadvantages, and they aren't stupid. Honestly, it's shameful, but I'm sure they knew HSD people would come on and attack them brutally. The fact that they surely expect people to come on here and make personal attacks on them before even thinking about it should be really embarassing. You're better than that, people. We need to reflect Christ a lot better than that.

_________________
Benjamin Vincent, RII Alum
Biola University '21
www.lifeinthesunrise.com

"Everything in this world is either a potato... or not a potato."


Last edited by The Ginga Ninja on Sun Jul 03, 2016 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 4:27 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 3:01 am
Posts: 651
Home Schooled: Yes
Location: Flying a UFO to an undisclosed location ;)
Who was complaining about the previous system? (Rhetorical)
Wwwwwwwwhhhhhhhhyyyyyyyyyyyyy?????

If wanted that style of tournament then I'd stick to the practice tournaments in the fall.

_________________
John Mark Porter, Alumni
Arx Axiom/Carpe Dictum/Verdict/UADC/HSDC/HSDRC

2011-12 l Porter/Thomason, Light/Porter
2012-13 l Bailey/Porter
2013-14 l Bailey/Porter
2014-15 l Folkert/Porter

2015-16 I Childs/Porter


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 4:29 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 1:57 am
Posts: 124
Home Schooled: Yes
Location: Check your fridge.
Also, point of info, it's not top 16 at every tournament. The same number of people qualify to Regs at each tournament as would have with an outrounds system. So, if there would have been Octas, 16 qualify. If there would have been quarters, 8. Etc.

_________________
Benjamin Vincent, RII Alum
Biola University '21
www.lifeinthesunrise.com

"Everything in this world is either a potato... or not a potato."


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 1:09 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:48 am
Posts: 468
Home Schooled: No
Location: Region 1
For clarification, this proposal affects qualifiers only. Regional and national level tournaments will still have outrounds.

_________________
What should a human be able to do? I agree with Robert A. Heinlein


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 4:06 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:19 pm
Posts: 123
Home Schooled: Yes
The Ginga Ninja wrote:
Also, point of info, it's not top 16 at every tournament. The same number of people qualify to Regs at each tournament as would have with an outrounds system. So, if there would have been Octas, 16 qualify. If there would have been quarters, 8. Etc.


Why would they not just make every 5-3 and up team qualify? that would make way more sense. The only reason that 3-3 teams qualify now is to make out rounds work better.


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 5:48 pm 
Offline
Forerunner
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2011 2:45 am
Posts: 1090
Home Schooled: Yes
Location: Locations are too mainstream
What was the reasoning explained for this?

_________________
NCFCA debate and speech alumni
Former homeschooler
Joel Thomas
Liberty University


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 7:45 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 1:57 am
Posts: 124
Home Schooled: Yes
Location: Check your fridge.
They wanted to have the same number of people qualify that would have under the current system, so people wouldn't complain that they would have qualified had the nee system not been implemented.

_________________
Benjamin Vincent, RII Alum
Biola University '21
www.lifeinthesunrise.com

"Everything in this world is either a potato... or not a potato."


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:34 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:47 pm
Posts: 1377
Home Schooled: Yes
Location: H*wL*tt P*ck*rd muffins
One of the big reasons for it is so that tournaments can end earlier, a lot easier, logistically speaking, on a lot of families.

_________________
-Joshua
The dumb Boatswain's Mate who once did debate
Proud Coastie, Puddle Pirate, and Shallow Water Sailor


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 4:56 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 3:01 am
Posts: 651
Home Schooled: Yes
Location: Flying a UFO to an undisclosed location ;)
Hammy wrote:
One of the big reasons for it is so that tournaments can end earlier, a lot easier, logistically speaking, on a lot of families.

It would be a lot easier, logistically speaking, for me to just not compete at tournaments and stay at home and forget debate.
The NCFCA won't be attracting any new students on the basis of earlier tournament endings (in my opinion). I can't speak for others, but when I go to a tournament I am setting aside 4-5 days so that I can reap an experience, i'm not willing to sacrifice that experience for expediency.

_________________
John Mark Porter, Alumni
Arx Axiom/Carpe Dictum/Verdict/UADC/HSDC/HSDRC

2011-12 l Porter/Thomason, Light/Porter
2012-13 l Bailey/Porter
2013-14 l Bailey/Porter
2014-15 l Folkert/Porter

2015-16 I Childs/Porter


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 12:17 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 8:59 pm
Posts: 4
Home Schooled: Yes
It would certainly ease the schedule, but I don't think that's sufficient justification. Having the two debate finals on stage to wrap up the tournament has more value than just the obvious (i.e., recognition of top performers and practice for large-jury rounds at higher levels). It also exposes beginning debaters to (hopefully) higher-level performance and (more importantly), speech-only competitors to quality debate.


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 3:08 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 3:01 am
Posts: 651
Home Schooled: Yes
Location: Flying a UFO to an undisclosed location ;)
Does anyone know if this policy only applies to debate? Or will it be for speech too?
If it does cover both than it's a bad idea, and if it doesn't, then it is hypocritical.

_________________
John Mark Porter, Alumni
Arx Axiom/Carpe Dictum/Verdict/UADC/HSDC/HSDRC

2011-12 l Porter/Thomason, Light/Porter
2012-13 l Bailey/Porter
2013-14 l Bailey/Porter
2014-15 l Folkert/Porter

2015-16 I Childs/Porter


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 3:35 pm 
Offline
Forerunner
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2011 2:45 am
Posts: 1090
Home Schooled: Yes
Location: Locations are too mainstream
How much shorter would the tournament be? 2 days instead of 3?

While in the NCFCA short tournaments might not seem attractive, it is actually huge. Pretty much every other league does one and two day tournaments. Public School leagues like the NFL have tournaments which ensure that students miss a minimal amount of school days. It's time homeschoolers get on board with that. Taking an entire 5 days of a work week is an extreme luxury that only works in the world of homeschooling. As someone who is no longer homeschooled, it is really just absurd that people can literally spend months out of the year competing in a speech and debate league.

_________________
NCFCA debate and speech alumni
Former homeschooler
Joel Thomas
Liberty University


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 4:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 3:01 am
Posts: 651
Home Schooled: Yes
Location: Flying a UFO to an undisclosed location ;)
Forerunner wrote:
How much shorter would the tournament be? 2 days instead of 3?

I was not under that impression, though if so I could see the advantage of having a tournament of that length, I don't believe that would be possible unless the speech events underwent a similar change. If that were so, then it would produce two very-packed 4 round days, which would be harder on people and difficult to arrange logistically.

_________________
John Mark Porter, Alumni
Arx Axiom/Carpe Dictum/Verdict/UADC/HSDC/HSDRC

2011-12 l Porter/Thomason, Light/Porter
2012-13 l Bailey/Porter
2013-14 l Bailey/Porter
2014-15 l Folkert/Porter

2015-16 I Childs/Porter


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 5:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 6:58 pm
Posts: 105
Home Schooled: Yes
Location: Always one step ahead of you.
Does this include speech events too?

_________________
Jonah Barnes, NCFCA Region IX

2014-2015 | Barnes/Spence
2015-2016 | Amedick/Barnes (2.0)
2016-2017 | Amedick/Barnes
2017-2018 | Amedick/Barnes


Top
   
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 3:17 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:13 pm
Posts: 471
Home Schooled: Yes
Location: Purcellville, VA
Jonah.a.barnes wrote:
Does this include speech events too?

Yes.

_________________
RIX Alum | Patrick Henry College | Class of 2019


Top
   
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 54 posts ]  Go to page 1 2 3 Next

All times are UTC+01:00


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited