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Should NCFCA eliminate outrounds for in-region qualifiers as proposed at the National Championship?
No 88%  88%  [ 45 ]
Yes 12%  12%  [ 6 ]
Total votes: 51
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 3:18 am 
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Speech out-rounds would be eliminated and the tournament would end early afternoon on Saturday allowing families to get back for Sunday.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 3:35 am 
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NerdRipper7 wrote:
Speech out-rounds would be eliminated and the tournament would end early afternoon on Saturday allowing families to get back for Sunday.

I will slowly melt into my chair as I judge next year.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 4:23 am 
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Quote:
How much shorter would the tournament be? 2 days instead of 3? While in the NCFCA short tournaments might not seem attractive, it is actually huge. Pretty much every other league does one and two day tournaments. Public School leagues like the NFL have tournaments which ensure that students miss a minimal amount of school days. It's time homeschoolers get on board with that. Taking an entire 5 days of a work week is an extreme luxury that only works in the world of homeschooling. As someone who is no longer homeschooled, it is really just absurd that people can literally spend months out of the year competing in a speech and debate league.
I would tend to think that the problem is a combination of the number of tournaments people attend and the length. Not to mention the over-the-top people who spend 10+ hours a week every week on speech and debate.

My last few years of competition I usually attended maybe 3 or 4 tournaments, with negligible hours prep. That's 9-12 days vacation off school - pretty reasonable I think.


The real problem with the proposal, imo, is not so much the concept itself. If people could throw a short two day tournament (maybe just 6 rounds?) with less logistics maybe there'd be small laid back tournaments popping up here and there that there didn't used to be. But since this is the NCFCA, there's no such thing as optional, so everybody would have to do it all the time, and there's plenty of valid reasons (not to mention fun) for having those elimination rounds. At least I'm no longer competing, but it'd be a real letdown if this becomes the law.

Something we should all keep in mind about complaining though: NCFCA is a service offered on its own terms. I'm a vendor at a farmer's market, and though most folks are very supportive there's the occasional customer who complains about the quality of the produce, goes ahead and buys it, and then comes back next week complaining about last week's produce, then busy more... ad infinitum. They've got every right to their opinion of my stuff, but at some point I stop selling to them. If you compete in the NCFCA, apparently you must think it's a net positive, so you're attitude to the organization and the people who work to run it and rule it should be net thankful. In a sense it's a testament to the character of the leadership, that in an organization so draconian about anything perceived as possibly rregular or unfair, that the organization has such a high tolerance for all the negativity from the folks benefiting from their work.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 4:40 pm 
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NerdRipper7 wrote:
Speech out-rounds would be eliminated and the tournament would end early afternoon on Saturday allowing families to get back for Sunday.

First allow me to say that I can and will accept this proposal for a year if I have to (I believe competition is more than just elimination-rounds). But with that said, this system would not make it possible for a very large amount of people to get back home much earlier. Here's why. Either families are close enough that they already travel home that first night OR the family is too far away to drive right home under both systems and will have to spend a whole half of the day with no competition.

One thing is for sure... I'm going to try to go to lots of national opens. :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:29 pm 
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Forerunner wrote:
What was the reasoning explained for this?


When Mrs. Hudson had a region meeting, someone asked her and the reasons she said, were to save money, time, and to gain more experience from debating more rounds.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:37 pm 
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MinTheLast wrote:
were to save money

Is this a thing? Someone help me out, I'm not seeing a significant financial benefit.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:59 pm 
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Hammy wrote:
Is this a thing? Someone help me out, I'm not seeing a significant financial benefit.

Exactly! (see my last comment) I know personally that my family will have to get a hotel room for just as long.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 6:52 pm 
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I find it mildly frustrating that the NCFCA isn't willing to look into possible reforms in areas where there is a public interest in reforming, but then changes something that totally isn't necessary to change and will likely just lead to outcry. I kind of have to respect the level of trolling we've reached now.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 7:52 pm 
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The best writeup on the topic that I've read:
http://www.ethosdebate.com/ncfca-make-n ... unds-work/

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 3:29 am 
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So guess what...

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 5:11 am 
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100% honestly, I'm much less likely to show and judge. I love judging out-rounds. Prelim debate normally bore me to tears. Even the fantastic kids are usually less interesting in prelims. There's simply a very different dynamic.

Ugh.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 12:00 pm 
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Great thoughts as always from Isaiah.

I would be very disappointed if I was still in the league

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 5:13 pm 
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Timbalistea wrote:
So guess what...

...yes? :P

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 7:31 pm 
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Sharkfin wrote:
Timbalistea wrote:
So guess what...

...yes? :P


NCFCA isn't doing out rounds anymore at qualifiers, I'm told. :P

I see this as them embracing the fact that the league doesn't really have legitimate competition and rolling with it. I can't really blame a league for playing down what it doesn't have. While it sucks for those who got a kick out of the (albeit fake) sense of accomplishment from "winning" qualifiers I feel the two extra rounds (or am I making that up?) will be super beneficial for the teams that don't get to go to a ton of tournaments. Let's remember to think of the little people, eh?

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GumboSoup wrote:
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 9:34 pm 
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Timbalistea wrote:
I feel the two extra rounds (or am I making that up?) will be super beneficial for the teams that don't get to go to a ton of tournaments. Let's remember to think of the little people, eh?

I joined my club in its first year--there was no one in my club with any experience. Our coaches did the best they could, but none of us had any idea what a real debate looked like. So I learned how to debate by watching outrounds.

If you want extra rounds, do them in club. Watching outrounds > debating two additional times, if you're a novice. You can't practice until you know what you're supposed to be doing.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 9:46 pm 
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Valid, although one could argue that if that was the goal clubs could just watch recorded rounds during club meetings for roughly the same impact. Tournaments should be a time primarily of learning by applying the skills you've learned and watched by actually debating. It's hard to do that while sitting on the sidelines watching the most polished teams slamming it out for the fourth time that year.

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Drew wrote:
GumboSoup wrote:
Dads ftw.
Tim is your dad?

http://twitch.tv/dutchwaffles
Usually streaming around 8 PM EST weeknights and unpredictably on weekends. Come on by and say hi sometime!


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2016 6:57 pm 
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Recorded rounds of 'the best' teams debating this year's topic are not always readily publicly available. Especially with NCFCA rules on recordings and youtube.

And maybe this is kind of like the whole ebook vs. paper-book thing, but it can just seem so much more legit and interesting when you're watching finals live along with several hundred others, compared to watching a recording of a preliminary round.

My first year I learned roughly equal from watching outrounds as I did in club - and we had a good club. To a lesser extent that was true my second year. Comparing what more experienced teams did to what I had done previously at the exact same tournament was a valuable reference.

Another side effect of this policy would be much less public knowledge of what the "better" teams are running. And I guess perhaps a positive would be that maybe there would be more originality, compared to copying what you saw in finals. Like anything else it's a mixed bag but I think most good reasons are against it. If the NCFCA made this an optional policy for tournaments where it was just more realistic for staff that would be one thing. But an across the board no outrounds policy is really extreme.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 4:13 pm 
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Does anyone know if the final round for LD and/or TP were recorded?

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 4:41 pm 
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Quote:
Does anyone know if the final round for LD and/or TP were recorded?

You slayyyyyyyyed. :becool:

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 5:38 pm 
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_idontknow_ wrote:
Does anyone know if the final round for LD and/or TP were recorded?

Yep. I got the TP round recorded here.

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