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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 1:04 am 
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I actually agree with this. People grow and change a lot during the middle school years, and 13 is quite different from 12 in my experience.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 1:07 am 
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No need for anyone to get touchy on the issues. We should treat every issue on it's own merits without letting past decisions make us judge the merits of future or current changes in policy.

I wish the waiver was permanent, not expiring in a few years. A waiver makes absolute sense and I like it, but honestly I don't see why, if a waiver is meant to insure that students with proper maturity levels are getting into the league, that getting rid of the waiver in 2 years would be anything but pointless. There's time and I think the NCFCA could extend it. Also, in my experience the NCFCA can handle exceptions on case-by-case basis, but I don't know how they could with this rule. We shall see I suppose. I've seen many 15-year olds who have less maturity than a 12 year old and many 12 year olds who have more maturity then those 5 years their seniors.

Ultimately, I don't know what parent would let their student debate in the league at 12 if they didn't think they were already mature enough for the environment and competition.

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John Mark Porter, Alumni
Arx Axiom/Carpe Dictum/Verdict/UADC/HSDC/HSDRC

2011-12 l Porter/Thomason, Light/Porter
2012-13 l Bailey/Porter
2013-14 l Bailey/Porter
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 4:54 am 
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Why is there a lower bound on age at all? (Serious question)

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- Will

2010-11 | Freshman | Bardsley/King | IX | 13th at Regionals
2011-12 | Sophomore | Dovel/King | IX | Q'd to Nationals
2012-13 | Junior | Dovel/King | IX | 17th at Nationals
2013-14 | Senior | Dovel/King | IX | 5th at Nationals

Baylor University class of 2018


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:35 pm 
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Meaning an age minimum?

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 4:49 pm 
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Yes.

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- Will

2010-11 | Freshman | Bardsley/King | IX | 13th at Regionals
2011-12 | Sophomore | Dovel/King | IX | Q'd to Nationals
2012-13 | Junior | Dovel/King | IX | 17th at Nationals
2013-14 | Senior | Dovel/King | IX | 5th at Nationals

Baylor University class of 2018


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:05 pm 
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kingwill wrote:
Why is there a lower bound on age at all?

I can't give you an official reason, but here are several:
- Maturity
- A need for timers :D
- It would swamp the system if we had a whole host of 9 and 10 year olds - as it is they are having trouble getting facilities that can host our numbers (I speak for Region 8, this problem isn't as big in other regions)
- Lack of educational involvement (Perhaps students at such ages could get something from it, but for the most part I wouldn't expect students who haven't even taken basic civics and economics classes to absorb enough to compete well)
The fourth and first points are of course dependent upon the student themselves and results will vary.

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John Mark Porter, Alumni
Arx Axiom/Carpe Dictum/Verdict/UADC/HSDC/HSDRC

2011-12 l Porter/Thomason, Light/Porter
2012-13 l Bailey/Porter
2013-14 l Bailey/Porter
2014-15 l Folkert/Porter

2015-16 I Childs/Porter


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:52 pm 
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Because debating 6 year olds would be awful.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:53 pm 
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JohnMarkPorter1 wrote:
- A need for timers :D

Quite seriously, ^this.

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-Joshua
08-09 | Half-Timer | Verdict | R8
09-10 | Timer | Verdict | R8
10-11 | Folkert/Folkert | Verdict | R8
11-12 | Folkert/Light | Verdict | R8
12-13 | Folkert/Light | Verdict | R8
13-14 | Folkert/Light | Verdict | R8
14-15 | Folkert/Porter | Arx Axiom | R8
15-16 | Doto/Folkert | Verdict | R8


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 2:12 pm 
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Masked Midnight wrote:
@Hammy: To answer your question, the value in opportunity cost that debaters get from older students for a full year of hands on experience is what you're giving up. The senior class will have changed and the younger students would not have hands on access to implement their advice. I was 12 when I started and can attest to this. It's not a matter of "crucifying" the leadership; rather it's an economics issue in value lost over a period of time. Kids learn more when they can put what they learn into action.

You're right, so why shouldn't 11 year olds be allowed to compete?

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-Joshua
08-09 | Half-Timer | Verdict | R8
09-10 | Timer | Verdict | R8
10-11 | Folkert/Folkert | Verdict | R8
11-12 | Folkert/Light | Verdict | R8
12-13 | Folkert/Light | Verdict | R8
13-14 | Folkert/Light | Verdict | R8
14-15 | Folkert/Porter | Arx Axiom | R8
15-16 | Doto/Folkert | Verdict | R8


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 5:21 pm 
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Masked Midnight wrote:
I'd challenge you to give me an example of a 12 year old who devalued the intensity of debate; I'd say that the league has more of a problem with older students than the 12 year olds.

I'd challenge you to show me where an 11 year old devalued debate.

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-Joshua
08-09 | Half-Timer | Verdict | R8
09-10 | Timer | Verdict | R8
10-11 | Folkert/Folkert | Verdict | R8
11-12 | Folkert/Light | Verdict | R8
12-13 | Folkert/Light | Verdict | R8
13-14 | Folkert/Light | Verdict | R8
14-15 | Folkert/Porter | Arx Axiom | R8
15-16 | Doto/Folkert | Verdict | R8


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:14 pm 
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NCFCA should not let seniors compete, if anything. They have far more important things to do at that stage in life.

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Timothy

Drew wrote:
GumboSoup wrote:
Dads ftw.
Tim is your dad?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:44 pm 
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Timbalistea wrote:
NCFCA should not let seniors compete, if anything. They have far more important things to do at that stage in life.

Right. Which is why they get to choose whether or not they are going to compete. NCFCA isn't standing at the door with a shotgun forcing all seniors to leave their home and livelihood to compete.
at least i don't think they are

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 4:24 pm 
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Masked Midnight wrote:
When one mistimes a round or disrupts a round or by entering during a speech.

I've had plenty of 12 year old (heh, seniors too) who have done that to me. Inconsistent. ;)

The point that I made earlier was simply that the the age is an arbitrary standard that could be 11, 12, or 13. There's no inherent reason to prefer any one above the other. I don't take issue with disagreeing with this (personally I do feel that 12 year olds should compete) but I will not stand for blasting NCFCA as a corrupt and poorly managed organization because they decide to bar 12 year olds from competing. :)

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-Joshua
08-09 | Half-Timer | Verdict | R8
09-10 | Timer | Verdict | R8
10-11 | Folkert/Folkert | Verdict | R8
11-12 | Folkert/Light | Verdict | R8
12-13 | Folkert/Light | Verdict | R8
13-14 | Folkert/Light | Verdict | R8
14-15 | Folkert/Porter | Arx Axiom | R8
15-16 | Doto/Folkert | Verdict | R8


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 9:53 pm 
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Masked Midnight wrote:
Hammy wrote:
...I will not stand for blasting NCFCA as a corrupt and poorly managed organization because they decide to bar 12 year olds from competing. :)
No one's positing that here. ;)

I know. :)

_________________
-Joshua
08-09 | Half-Timer | Verdict | R8
09-10 | Timer | Verdict | R8
10-11 | Folkert/Folkert | Verdict | R8
11-12 | Folkert/Light | Verdict | R8
12-13 | Folkert/Light | Verdict | R8
13-14 | Folkert/Light | Verdict | R8
14-15 | Folkert/Porter | Arx Axiom | R8
15-16 | Doto/Folkert | Verdict | R8


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 5:39 am 
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Hammy wrote:
Masked Midnight wrote:
Hammy wrote:
...I will not stand for blasting NCFCA as a corrupt and poorly managed organization because they decide to bar 12 year olds from competing. :)
No one's positing that here. ;)

I know. :)


Wat.

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Timothy

Drew wrote:
GumboSoup wrote:
Dads ftw.
Tim is your dad?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 1:53 am 
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What I don't like about the age change and deadline standard, is that it is a disadvantage to students who would have been 12, before January 1, before the changes, who now have to send out a waiver to compete this year, and then not be able to compete the next year. :? I think I'm more disappointed with the age change then the deadline standard. The deadline standard makes more sense to me then the age change. Before I was worried that I would not be able to compete, as a result of myself turning 13 on September 3 two days after the deadline, but when I read more in depth about the changes I saw that I would fall under the grandfather rule, because I competed in the previous year 2014-2015. What a relief!

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Benjamin Anastasi, Region X
"It is our choices that show who we truly are, far more then our abilities," - Albus Dumbledore

Anastasi/Anastasi 2014-2015 - WPACO

Anastasi/Anastasi 2015-2016 - Cosmos Debate Club
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 7:29 pm 
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Timbalistea wrote:
Hammy wrote:
Masked Midnight wrote:
Hammy wrote:
...I will not stand for blasting NCFCA as a corrupt and poorly managed organization because they decide to bar 12 year olds from competing. :)
No one's positing that here. ;)

I know. :)


Wat.

Razi asked for an explanation and I gave him one.

_________________
-Joshua
08-09 | Half-Timer | Verdict | R8
09-10 | Timer | Verdict | R8
10-11 | Folkert/Folkert | Verdict | R8
11-12 | Folkert/Light | Verdict | R8
12-13 | Folkert/Light | Verdict | R8
13-14 | Folkert/Light | Verdict | R8
14-15 | Folkert/Porter | Arx Axiom | R8
15-16 | Doto/Folkert | Verdict | R8


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