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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:58 am 
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NCFCA just did something quite significant. 12 year old students will no longer compete. http://www.ncfca.org/wp-content/uploads ... hanges.pdf

Quote:
Recently, the NCFCA Board of Directors voted to make two significant adjustments to the NCFCA Eligibility Guidelines.

The first change will be to move the deadline for competitive age to more closely align with the standard school year. Up to this point, the eligibility deadline has lined up with the start of NCFCA’s competitive season, as opposed to the start of a student’s school year. Going forward, our eligibility age deadline will shift from January 1 back to September 1.

The other adjustment will be to the actual competition ages for NCFCA students. While NCFCA has always been a high school league, the Board has traditionally recognized that a few students do mature more quickly and may be ready for competition before they reach the generally accepted age of a high school student. Because of this, NCFCA has chosen to allow younger students to compete at the discretion of their parents. However, it has been a concern of the Board for quite a while that there is a critical difference in maturity level between our oldest competitors and our youngest competitors. We will address this issue by moving the age requirement on the younger end of the age spectrum from 12 years old up to 13 years old. This change serves to reduce the significant age gap between our older and younger competitors while still allowing for a generous potential of six years of NCFCA competition.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 12:01 pm 
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My first partner would have been too young to compete the year we won regionals :P

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 2:02 pm 
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To be fair, there is a waiver, but I'm not sure how long that actually lasts.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 2:17 pm 
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Just wondering. Is the waiver for younger students as well as older students, or just older students?

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 2:25 pm 
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Jonah.a.barnes wrote:
Just wondering. Is the waiver for younger students as well as older students, or just older students?

The waiver is for younger students.

I was born January 2nd so the rule never really excluded me, but my younger sister was born September 2nd so it's fortuitous :D, even though she probably won't debate that year.

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John Mark Porter, Alumni
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2011-12 l Porter/Thomason, Light/Porter
2012-13 l Bailey/Porter
2013-14 l Bailey/Porter
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 2:35 pm 
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Sorry, I just went back and read it again and I saw where it said that. :? :D

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 10:15 pm 
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I started when I was 12. I could, theoretically compete for 9 years in total. I won't probably. But dang.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 3:53 pm 
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I must say when I first began to read this news on the NCFCA's website I though I might go mad because my debate partner was 12 last year but won't be 13 until September 3, two days after the new deadline. He broke to semi's at regionals in one of his speeches and together we were able to make it to regionals in Team Policy (a personal first for debate). Thankfully he is covered by the waiver.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 8:55 pm 
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This is a very interesting decision.......


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 6:35 pm 
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Hint hint peoples.
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Masked Midnight wrote:
Yet again, I'm not a fan. :P

I learned a lot from older students when I was 12. It was critical for my development as a debater. Oh well.

Agreed. NCFCA screws up yet again.

While it's noble that NCFCA is trying to "close the gap" so to speak, I think they're going through with fixing a problem that doesn't actually exist. It's always been the case that 12 year olds and 18 year olds compete in the same events, in the same rooms. Yet just because you're 18, doesn't mean you're entitled to a ticket to 1st place. Younger students routinely win against older students and sometimes win championships, and older students win championships a lot too. Cutting off 12 year olds from competition serves only to limit the playing field to what the NCFCA dictators want it to be.

Also, the waiver might render the new rule useless, kind of like how the personal beliefs waiver stymies vaccines' effectiveness because society loses "herd immunity" needed to protect everyone. If all the parents just say "oh, my 12 year old student's mature enough" then there really is no point to this new rule.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 7:10 pm 
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Evan wrote:
Also, the waiver might render the new rule useless, kind of like how the personal beliefs waiver stymies vaccines' effectiveness because society loses "herd immunity" needed to protect everyone. If all the parents just say "oh, my 12 year old student's mature enough" then there really is no point to this new rule.

I haven't read the rules in a couple weeks, but if I recall the waiver expires in the 2017-2018 year.

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Arx Axiom/Carpe Dictum/Verdict/UADC/HSDC/HSDRC

2011-12 l Porter/Thomason, Light/Porter
2012-13 l Bailey/Porter
2013-14 l Bailey/Porter
2014-15 l Folkert/Porter

2015-16 I Childs/Porter


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:09 am 
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Evan wrote:
NCFCA dictators

typo or well-placed dig? :P

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- Will

2010-11 | Freshman | Bardsley/King | IX | 13th at Regionals
2011-12 | Sophomore | Dovel/King | IX | Q'd to Nationals
2012-13 | Junior | Dovel/King | IX | 17th at Nationals
2013-14 | Senior | Dovel/King | IX | 5th at Nationals

Baylor University class of 2018


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 4:34 am 
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I started debating when I was thirteen, one year after I was first eligible. Under the new rules, I wouldn't have been allowed to start competing until my 2nd year of debate. Under the new rules, I could compete in the league for two more years.

I'm actually sort of okay with a raised lower-end entrance for debate (I would say 14), however, speeches should definitely be open to 12 year-olds on up. However, regulating age qualifications in that way would just be awkward, so they all just get clumped together. Also, I personally find the fact that someone could compete at nationals and turn 20 just three months later quite a bit bizarre.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:19 pm 
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Evan wrote:
Masked Midnight wrote:
Yet again, I'm not a fan. :P

I learned a lot from older students when I was 12. It was critical for my development as a debater. Oh well.

Agreed. NCFCA screws up yet again.

While it's noble that NCFCA is trying to "close the gap" so to speak, I think they're going through with fixing a problem that doesn't actually exist. It's always been the case that 12 year olds and 18 year olds compete in the same events, in the same rooms. Yet just because you're 18, doesn't mean you're entitled to a ticket to 1st place. Younger students routinely win against older students and sometimes win championships, and older students win championships a lot too. Cutting off 12 year olds from competition serves only to limit the playing field to what the NCFCA dictators want it to be.

Also, the waiver might render the new rule useless, kind of like how the personal beliefs waiver stymies vaccines' effectiveness because society loses "herd immunity" needed to protect everyone. If all the parents just say "oh, my 12 year old student's mature enough" then there really is no point to this new rule.

I am quickly growing tired of this obsession to hop on any of NCFCA's decisions and burn them on the stake. Is there any inherent reason for why 12 year olds should be allowed to compete? What about 11 year olds before this change was made? Personally, I don't agree with the decision, but at the same time there is absolutely no justification to crucify the NCFCA Leadership for making this decision when there's no inherent reason to prefer on either side of the spectrum. Forgive my bluntness, but cease and desist with this inflammatory talk.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 12:57 am 
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Any age limit is going to be inherently arbitrary and flawed. We are just choosing to express why we think a narrower age range is even more flawed. Personally, I think it is beneficial for individuals to be exposed to communication exercises at an earlier age. And parents are in a better position to make judgement calls than ncfca. No one is calling for violent revolution so I don't think this is super inflammatory ;)

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 1:04 am 
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I actually agree with this. People grow and change a lot during the middle school years, and 13 is quite different from 12 in my experience.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 1:07 am 
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No need for anyone to get touchy on the issues. We should treat every issue on it's own merits without letting past decisions make us judge the merits of future or current changes in policy.

I wish the waiver was permanent, not expiring in a few years. A waiver makes absolute sense and I like it, but honestly I don't see why, if a waiver is meant to insure that students with proper maturity levels are getting into the league, that getting rid of the waiver in 2 years would be anything but pointless. There's time and I think the NCFCA could extend it. Also, in my experience the NCFCA can handle exceptions on case-by-case basis, but I don't know how they could with this rule. We shall see I suppose. I've seen many 15-year olds who have less maturity than a 12 year old and many 12 year olds who have more maturity then those 5 years their seniors.

Ultimately, I don't know what parent would let their student debate in the league at 12 if they didn't think they were already mature enough for the environment and competition.

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John Mark Porter, Alumni
Arx Axiom/Carpe Dictum/Verdict/UADC/HSDC/HSDRC

2011-12 l Porter/Thomason, Light/Porter
2012-13 l Bailey/Porter
2013-14 l Bailey/Porter
2014-15 l Folkert/Porter

2015-16 I Childs/Porter


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 4:54 am 
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Why is there a lower bound on age at all? (Serious question)

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- Will

2010-11 | Freshman | Bardsley/King | IX | 13th at Regionals
2011-12 | Sophomore | Dovel/King | IX | Q'd to Nationals
2012-13 | Junior | Dovel/King | IX | 17th at Nationals
2013-14 | Senior | Dovel/King | IX | 5th at Nationals

Baylor University class of 2018


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:35 pm 
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Meaning an age minimum?

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 4:49 pm 
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Yes.

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- Will

2010-11 | Freshman | Bardsley/King | IX | 13th at Regionals
2011-12 | Sophomore | Dovel/King | IX | Q'd to Nationals
2012-13 | Junior | Dovel/King | IX | 17th at Nationals
2013-14 | Senior | Dovel/King | IX | 5th at Nationals

Baylor University class of 2018


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