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 Post subject: Re: NCFCA Resolutions
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 5:35 am 
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Sharkfin wrote:
Settota wrote:
However, since Biblical interp is a thing and we have to accept it can someone please interp the Song of Solomon or possibly the ancestral line of Jesus? ;)

I will buy whoever does this a large ice cream cone from chickfila. Or pretty much anywhere.

I'm pulling for Judges 19

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 Post subject: Re: NCFCA Resolutions
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 6:13 am 
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After league announcements on day 2, a region 8 competitor summed up what I think everyone is thinking about the new changes in one word: confused.

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 Post subject: Re: NCFCA Resolutions
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 2:51 am 
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Masked Midnight wrote:
ShaynePC wrote:
That is stupid. Totally totally stupid. That is absolutely moronic. Wow. If I was in NCFCA I'd leave now.
Nats is in Spokane in 2016. I know a lot of people leaving NCFCA for STOA as a result.

I don't know how re-districting is going to work, but I wouldn't be so quick to shoot it down. Shayne's points on division of friendships has some merit. However, our coordinators have put a lot of thought into it and have determined it's the best option, and I will respect them for that. There will still be two qualifiers, the national open(s), regionals, and nationals. For me it just means one smaller tournament. The problem I see is that it will automatically make the dual-district tournaments that much more important (with At-large especially) and it will make those tournaments enormous, which seems to be counter-productive if the whole argument is that Region 8 tournaments are getting too big. I would really appreciate it if someone from Region 4 was able to post on how their experience has been with the district-system.

I wasn't a fan of how humorous interp has been for the last few years. The pieces are getting a bit stale, though that's partly because I've been part of the organization for 5 years and have seen so many REALLY good ones. I am really sad that After Dinner is gone because it was quickly becoming my favorite speech to watch (Definitely up there with Extemp and Duo). I don't see why Biographical Narrative is back especially when this year's informative winner seemed to be doing just that, why can't the two be together? What vacuum was the league trying to fill?

It's a bit too early to talk about Biblical Interpretation considering that there aren't any rules out yet.

I am a bit annoyed at the Nationals location. At least Minnesota was somewhat centrally located (within a 24 hour drive of just about any one), but Spokane is way to far for most people in Regions 7, 8, 9, and 10 to drive (and for myself I couldn't afford a plane ticket). If it was for the purpose of bringing in more people to the NCFCA (which I don't object too at all), then shouldn't the tournament have been held in California itself? where the NCFCA presence is so thin? I can't speak to Razi's point that people will go to STOA instead, but it is a legitimate argument that the NCFCA is making itself less appealing and alienating other regions.

I still love NCFCA, but it's getting harder.

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 Post subject: Re: NCFCA Resolutions
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 3:56 am 
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Masked Midnight wrote:
ShaynePC wrote:
That is stupid. Totally totally stupid. That is absolutely moronic. Wow. If I was in NCFCA I'd leave now.
Nats is in Spokane in 2016. I know a lot of people leaving NCFCA for STOA as a result.


That's actually kind of hilarious. NITOC is held in California almost every-other year. In fact, it was most recently in South Carolina (far, far away for most competitors.) I love Stoa and think it's great, but the argument for accessibility...

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 Post subject: Re: NCFCA Resolutions
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 4:50 pm 
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LocutusofBorg wrote:
Yes, ADS and, I would assume, TI were terrible.


ADS was definitely not terrible, at least not in R5.

My vote would be to do nats in NC and an open at Whitworth–that makes so much more sense than making people drive 30+ hours or pay through the nose for plane tickets. NCFCA has always been thinner as you go further north and west–it just doesn't make sense to have nats in the northwest corner of the nation. Might as well have it in Havana-at least the weather's nice and there are good cigars. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: NCFCA Resolutions
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 4:59 pm 
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Quote:
Nats is in Spokane in 2016. I know a lot of people leaving NCFCA for STOA as a result.

Why on earth would people leave? Nats is near sometimes and far sometimes. People should be used to that by now.

Quote:
This new change is slitting a region, and pitting it against each other...and making friendships more separate.

How on earth is it doing that? It's not pitting any people against each other who aren't already competing against each other. As for making friendships more separate: using that logic we ought to abolish regions altogether and let anyone go to any tournament just so they can make more friends.

Quote:
I talked to someone who talked to Mrs. Hudson about HI. She said that, the reason they got rid of HI was because of what it was turning into. Or what the "stories" were turning into. Instead of having really stories, there were slapstick pieces and pieces like: "ten ways to blank." Which wasn't what HI was supposed to be.

I am actually quite happy about the abolition of HI for this very reason. You can't ever win in HI unless you have some slapstick piece with tons of yelling in it. Good literature and witty humor never wins. Try running that kind of thing in Open and you will also lose, because everyone runs tear-jerker stories, and funny Opens rarely do that well.

This new change will fix all that though. Now people will start running all their funny pieces in Open rather than HI, and judges might vote for the funny pieces that are good literature rather than the ones that make them laugh the most.

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 Post subject: Re: NCFCA Resolutions
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 1:00 am 
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I think axing TI made sense because, at least over here in region 6, there were so few doing it that almost everyone who did it broke at one point, it never even got to semis once! In my opinion that's how it will be with BI because people who do interps like humor, which if you are interpreting scripture, there is very little tolerance for. People will look at BI as a serious event that sounds dreadfully boring.

I am very upset that they axed ADS. It was a great solution to the HI problem with the stand up comedy, because that was completely the point of ADS.

Original Interp does sound like it will be a very fun category because, at least in 6, the interpers are exceedingly creative and naturally funny and this will give them room to stretch their creative writing muscles, and give them a world more freedom to add original additions (which was hard to do in HI, it was all about the script you had)

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 Post subject: Re: NCFCA Resolutions
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 1:12 am 
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TheMasterDebater wrote:
I am very upset that they axed ADS. It was a great solution to the HI problem with the stand up comedy, because that was completely the point of ADS.
Actually, the thing is...that wasn't the point of ADS. As laid out in the ADS event rules, an ADS is (or rather, was :P) a speech that "should inform, persuade, and/or inspire in an entertaining manner." In fact, the ADS rules specifically said that "stand-up comedy routines and unrelated strings of jokes are not appropriate material." Rather than seeing informative/persuasive speeches that used humor convey their point, I saw a large number of ADSes that put comedy over content. It seemed like half of the speeches were about how special homeschoolers are, what it's like being X child in a big family, and similar topics. Unfortunately, speeches with truly strong content were few and far between. I'm sad that ADS had to go, because I think that the category had a lot of potential. But I understand why they chose to remove it.

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 Post subject: Re: NCFCA Resolutions
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 3:10 am 
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I'm grateful for everything NCFCA has given me and it's leadership...

but let's just say that it's a good good year to quit :D

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 Post subject: Re: NCFCA Resolutions
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 3:11 am 
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mountain dude wrote:
LocutusofBorg wrote:
Yes, ADS and, I would assume, TI were terrible.


ADS was definitely not terrible, at least not in R5.

Maybe it was different this year (I doubt it, given what I heard), but yeah...ADS was terrible in R5. Considering I judged what was considered the best ADS in R5 (along with some other well known speakers) two years ago, I think I saw a pretty good sample. The problem is that what you think of when you see the rules isn't what ADS isn't supposed to be. I had the same problem--when I wen tinto college I wasn't sure how you do an ADS without doing standup. If you watch a good college round, you'll see. But because the NCFCA doesn't have access to how to actually write speeches, they were all either standup or not at all funny.

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 Post subject: Re: NCFCA Resolutions
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 3:18 am 
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Bryan's and Marina's points on ADS are very legitimate and I guess I can excuse the League for thinking it had lost it's way with the category. At the same time, I would rather have the NCFCA re-define the category (and perhaps use that as a way of getting rid of HI) as opposed to abolishing it all together.

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 Post subject: Re: NCFCA Resolutions
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 12:17 pm 
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Personally, I'm quite thrilled with HI being removed. Open Interp has always been plagued by being a knockoff of Dramatic Interp. The speeches about Nazis and Jews that make you cry always beat out the better done speeches about a more obscure topic. But now the dramatic speeches will have to go head to head with humorous speeches in the Open Interp category which should balance the category a bit more.

ShaynePC wrote:
That is stupid. Totally totally stupid. That is absolutely moronic. Wow. If I was in NCFCA I'd leave now.

No it really isn't. Don't get me wrong, I wish that Region 8 could stay unified as one whole region, but it's logistically impossible and axes a lot of kid's opportunities. We're getting really big as a region and that makes it very difficult to find tournament facilities. We almost didn't have a Florida qualifier because we couldn't find a location until the last minute. It's always hard to find colleges willing to host us because it's the middle of the fall semester and the vast majority of churches large enough to host us have full schedules and can't fit us in.

Large tournaments also lead to a massive pool of judges that are needed to support the rounds. Community judges have been lacking and we've come close to voiding entire tournaments because we could find enough judges. (I mean so close that our staff would sit down to pray that someone would walk through the door and take a ballot) The lack of community judges leads to the necessity of parents/chaperones taking every ballot every round which doesn't always fill the need and really lowers the quality of judging because they've been doing it all day.

Also, (especially in Florida) we have a lot of competitors who have a low dedication level to NCFCA. The majority of the time this is based on financial reasons, people simply don't have the money to travel to SC or GA for qualifiers. That leaves them with only one choice, the Florida tournament (which mind you, almost didn't exist last year). They can only go to one tournament which really knocks out incentive because the entire debate season consists of one tournament. This change will allow for at least two tournaments to be centered in relatively convenient locations and will allow for the worse off to attend more tournaments.

So yes, it's annoying that Florida and GA/SC will be somewhat separated, and no, I don't like it that I won't see my friends quite as much, but I'm willing to make that sacrifice for the benefit of my friends who want to attend more tournaments but can't and so that our leadership will have an easier time finding facilities and judges. Also, take note that this wasn't a decision forced on us by the higher ups. Our R8 leaders worked with them to come up with the best solution and I have the fullest trust that our R8 leadership knows what they're doing.

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 Post subject: Re: NCFCA Resolutions
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:23 pm 
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Hammy wrote:
Personally, I'm quite thrilled with HI being removed. Open Interp has always been plagued by being a knockoff of Dramatic Interp. The speeches about Nazis and Jews that make you cry always beat out the better done speeches about a more obscure topic. But now the dramatic speeches will have to go head to head with humorous speeches in the Open Interp category which should balance the category a bit more.


I disagree with this completely. There were plenty of unique topics that did well in R7 that had a balance of humor and drama. Sure, there were some speeches with no relief, but those didn't automatically do better than the rest. A funny speech is not as difficult to do as a serious piece. By combining serious pieces with pieces intended for HI, it's going to be harder for judges to fairly judge and for competitors to excel. The same exact problem exists in duo. Judges just like funny pieces more, even if they aren't as well done. So, competitors who want to challenge themselves by performing a more difficult piece are going to be hurt by this. I'm very frustrated by it.

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 Post subject: Re: NCFCA Resolutions
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:27 pm 
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Masked Midnight wrote:
I'd be curious to know which R8 admin supported the idea,

I know for sure Mr. Seymour because I talked to him about it, but I can't say anything for the others.

And quite honestly, you are right. Unless something changes with TP then we'll probably be screwed over, but LD got to the point that it warrants the change.

Masked Midnight wrote:
@Switching to STOA: Many families either cannot afford, or just refuse to travel to WA for nationals. If their kids are to continue doing speech and debate, they have no other option besides STOA. Riaz is likely going to be finished with NCFCA this year as a result; there's no way he can get to Spokane. I do know some other students switching exclusively to STOA.

I wish that there was some sort of scholarship program for Nats. If we could get some rich people to sponsor us.

SavyAvy wrote:
A funny speech is not as difficult to do as a serious piece.

It depends on the person. Some people have a much easier time doing a funny speech and others have a much easier time doing a serious piece.

SavyAvy wrote:
Sure, there were some speeches with no relief, but those didn't automatically do better than the rest.

Have you ever competed in Open? Because it (generally) happens.

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 Post subject: Re: NCFCA Resolutions
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:33 pm 
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Hammy wrote:
It depends on the person. Some people have a much easier time doing a funny speech and others have a much easier time doing a serious piece.


What I mean is that it's harder to portray the range of emotions typical in more serious/sad pieces, and it's harder to elicit a reaction from the audience that isn't laughter.

Hammy wrote:
Have you ever competed in Open? Because it (generally) happens.


Yes, I did two years ago and I will again this year. There were a few pieces that were extremely dramatic and intense that did well, but the majority offered a balance of humor and drama or they were just serious pieces, not particularly sad ones.

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 Post subject: Re: NCFCA Resolutions
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:24 pm 
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I don't get it. Why don't they just move South Carolina to Region 9? It would make a lot of people sad. But it seems as though it would solve to logistics issues much better.

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 Post subject: Re: NCFCA Resolutions
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:31 pm 
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Crazy-Clubin'-People wrote:
I don't get it. Why don't they just move South Carolina to Region 9? It would make a lot of people sad. But it seems as though it would solve to logistics issues much better.

For myself and a large amount of others, I know that they would simply affiliate under Region 8 (before the meeting was held between R8 parents and Mrs. Hudson SC splitting off was a rumor that was abroad and many announced their intentions to keep with R8 anyway). I think there would have been a lot of people far more upset with that decision.
Masked Midnight wrote:
You'll have tournaments in SC with three to six TP teams and still have the large tournaments in FL.
3-6 Teams??? Not sure where you got this idea. UADC is a decently large club. Arx Axiom, while I don't know if it will still exist next year, still has a good number of partial-affiliates. Georgia and Rebels from North Carolina are slimmer but still present and should bring in another few teams.
Seeing as I've been looking for a debate partner for next year (I will not forgive you Hammy! :cry: jk :lol: ) I put together a list of teams that we are expecting to have around next year and there is a solid dozen for the GA-SC district already. It's my hope that we bring in more students next year out of necessity if nothing else. Verdict does a great job in Florida of doing this and that's why their tournaments are expected to be so large. Right now we need someone to be taking initiative in that field in Georgia or SC, I just don't see anyone who can or is with TP.

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 Post subject: Re: NCFCA Resolutions
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:04 pm 
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Crazy-Clubin'-People wrote:
I don't get it. Why don't they just move South Carolina to Region 9? It would make a lot of people sad. But it seems as though it would solve to logistics issues much better.


No offense to south carolinians... but we like being non-southern. :)

But really though, tournaments would be far too far away.

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Last edited by Forerunner on Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: NCFCA Resolutions
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:04 pm 
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Perhaps it will be overturned mid-year, but we tend to forget that it's been used the last few years in Region 4.
I would expect 15-23 TP teams at each district qualifier and 35-50 teams at each Regional-wide qualifier (mostly because of the At-large points it affords). The smaller, closer district tournaments are meant to encourage novices and the less-financially stable to come because they don't have to commit as much, so they should still be bringing in a decent enough haul. If they are close enough, then more people will come. There is also a core of individuals who come to every tournament (barring an external conflict).
For myself, I went to 3 qualifiers, an open, regionals, and nationals last year. I doubt I would change anything this year with probably both regional-wide tournaments, at least 1 of the district tournaments (maybe both depending on proximity and partnership preferences), the national open, and regionals (assuming I make it ;)). Only in one of those tournaments would I be "hitting the same 12 teams" or loose out on "networking." I can't speak much to how speech events will work because I've not really participated in those actively in the past.

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 Post subject: Re: NCFCA Resolutions
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:06 pm 
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Masked Midnight wrote:
Ultimately, I tend to think the regional redistricting will get overturned later and it's just a pilot project doomed to fail. Experimental discovery is a good and laudable idea though. :)

Supposedly they tried this in Texas and it worked, so I wouldn't count on that.

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