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Which resolutions are you voting for
A. Resolved: That the United States Federal Government should significantly reform its agricultural policies. 19%  19%  [ 17 ]
B. Resolved: That the United States Federal Court system should be significantly reformed. 22%  22%  [ 20 ]
C. Resolved: That the United States Federal Government should significantly reform one or more of the following programs: Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. 9%  9%  [ 8 ]
A. Resolved: When in conflict, the right to individual privacy is more important than national security. 7%  7%  [ 6 ]
B. Resolved: Judicial activism ought to be valued above judicial restraint. 28%  28%  [ 25 ]
C. Resolved: A just government ought to provide for the basic welfare of its citizens. 15%  15%  [ 13 ]
Total votes: 89
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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 1:19 am 
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mendicant2 wrote:
B: Oh the judge bias. It seems like all the neg would have to do is connect Roe v Wade to Judicial Activism and the debate is over. Seriously. I'd love to have this debate in a different league, but I don't think it would work in the NCFCA due to the insane bias against Judicial Activism.


Just a note with the people who say B won't have much problems with judge bias, Guys, medicant is right. Stuff like Roe vs. Wade is what Judicial Activism is. Option B would clearly be biased neg. There's pretty big judge bias with all the options, even B. So IMO judge bias shouldn't really be an issue in deciding which LD option to go with.

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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 1:52 am 
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maranathaman wrote:
mendicant2 wrote:
B: Oh the judge bias. It seems like all the neg would have to do is connect Roe v Wade to Judicial Activism and the debate is over. Seriously. I'd love to have this debate in a different league, but I don't think it would work in the NCFCA due to the insane bias against Judicial Activism.


Just a note with the people who say B won't have much problems with judge bias, Guys, medicant is right. Stuff like Roe vs. Wade is what Judicial Activism is. Option B would clearly be biased neg. There's pretty big judge bias with all the options, even B. So IMO judge bias shouldn't really be an issue in deciding which LD option to go with.


Brown V. Board of education and Citizens United V. FEC are both examples of judicial activism. Bias won't be as bad as you think.

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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 3:21 am 
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As an LD alumni, I'm personally in favor of B. For A, I really don't want to hear about national security again. I'm still tired of it, even though that resolution is nearly a year old. I don't want C to be chosen either, because a lot of the arguments that favored equity would be brought back. I really want to see unique arguments, and B is the resolution most likely to make that happen.

maranathaman wrote:
There's pretty big judge bias with all the options, even B. So IMO judge bias shouldn't really be an issue in deciding which LD option to go with.

This is true, every resolution I have ever debated has been weighted one way or the other. But because this resolution might be biased neg, it could actually work out well. This bias might actually counteract the inherent advantage of the affirmative. The affirmative gets both the first and last word, a negative bias might level the playing field. In my opinion, it is better to have a res biased towards the negative, than a res biased towards the affirmative.

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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 5:49 am 
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Bliźniak wrote:
As an LD alumni, I'm personally in favor of B. For A, I really don't want to hear about national security again. I'm still tired of it, even though that resolution is nearly a year old. I don't want C to be chosen either, because a lot of the arguments that favored equity would be brought back. I really want to see unique arguments, and B is the resolution most likely to make that happen.

maranathaman wrote:
There's pretty big judge bias with all the options, even B. So IMO judge bias shouldn't really be an issue in deciding which LD option to go with.

This is true, every resolution I have ever debated has been weighted one way or the other. But because this resolution might be biased neg, it could actually work out well. This bias might actually counteract the inherent advantage of the affirmative. The affirmative gets both the first and last word, a negative bias might level the playing field. In my opinion, it is better to have a res biased towards the negative, than a res biased towards the affirmative.


^^ Everything said in all of these posts. Also, though there is the potential for bias toward the neg simply by virtue of Roe v. Wade, I think that a good affirmative case could counteract this and appeal to other conservative tendencies. Personally I think this would be the most balanced and unique of all three resolutions. I would not want (A) because of national security again, and though (C) would be somewhat interesting, it would have too many recycled arguments from this year and overall would be less unique than (B).

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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 12:58 pm 
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I voted for B on TP and LD. With A) for TP I feel people could run different squirrels all over the place. B i think, is the best choice


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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 10:53 pm 
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B is less educational for those of us who debated CJS. Half of the cases are the same.

A has more squirrel cases, but that only makes it more educational. There were lots of squirrels this year too, but this was my favorite year I've debated.

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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 1:07 am 
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B for TP is basically CJS.... Just without the fun parts.


C is obviously a bad one....

A is interesting and new, and something that judges care about.

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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 1:44 am 
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mountain dude wrote:
B is less educational for those of us who debated CJS. Half of the cases are the same.

I also find it curious that on the official rundown of each resolution presented by the NCFCA, it noted that this resolution was not quite a moving target and older evidence (which would be what we already covered CJS year) would still be relevant. They are all decent resolutions, but I would much rather see Agriculture as the resolution - something fresh and organic :lol:.

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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 4:53 am 
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Simon Sefzik wrote:
C is obviously a bad one....


It's better than B because at least it covers some topics that we haven't learned about before. It's probably the most politically relevant of the three.

After some consideration I am voting A, mainly because Ag policy is just so awesome. It includes way more than just the farm bill (which is what the NCFCA site said), just look at the USDA website.

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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 5:40 am 
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mountain dude wrote:
It's better than B because at least it covers some topics that we haven't learned about before. It's probably the most politically relevant of the three.

Ever done Extemp at all in the past three years? There's almost always at least one medicare/social security question at each tournament. :P

mountain dude wrote:
B is less educational for those of us who debated CJS. Half of the cases are the same.

I do see what you're saying, but it would still be educational for those who didn't debate CJS year. Plus, the threat of frivolous T-presses would probably limit the scope to simply court procedures which, while still relevant, could get boring fast.

Simon Sefzik wrote:
A is interesting and new, and something that judges care about.

^This. That judges care about, but don't know enough about to have prejudices.

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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 2:58 pm 
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I feel like Resolution B would be going to far down the Values aspect of debate. Pretty much every case I can possibly imagine would have "Justice served" as one of their (likely primary) justifications. I'll bet you a great deal of money that the justifications of:
1) Saved Money (Because it lowers incarceration or something)
2) Reduced Recidivism
3) Ambiguous "Justice"
Will be justifications encapsulated in 85% or more of all cases.

The issue with "Justice" as a justification in Team Policy is 1) it's hard to quantify and 2) this is Team Policy, the Neg is arguing for an unjust status quo--not necessarily arguing for a different motivation or value as is true of LD.

Every resolution, no matter how broad, has always had smatterings of the Criminal Justice System application. Russia year there were Extradition cases (if I remember correctly, I didn't compete), Criminal Justice year cases involved the court system (duh), UN year there were ICC cases and similar issues, Election Law Year we had allowing criminals to vote, and even this year we had the reforming the court system's definition of legal Guardianship for Iraqi and Afghan Orphans. Even in the broader resolutions like we had this year, there was still plenty of opportunity for cases regarding the court system, even if they aren't direct reforms of that system. Even with Agriculture cases there will be those that increase (or decrease) regulations and penalties which necessarily involve the legal system. It's not that I think that it's a bad resolution, but it seems to be unnecessary and redundant and the alternatives are much better.

Also, it would be slightly annoying to have both the LD and TP resolutions focusing on the justice system.

Also, so much of what Hammy mentioned in regards to Extemp and resolution C.

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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 4:01 pm 
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JohnMarkPorter1 wrote:
Also, it would be slightly annoying to have both the LD and TP resolutions focusing on the justice system.


Why?

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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 4:10 pm 
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SavyAvy wrote:
JohnMarkPorter1 wrote:
Also, it would be slightly annoying to have both the LD and TP resolutions focusing on the justice system.
Why?
Redundancy mostly. Though it may encourage lots of people to do both, so that would be interesting.

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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 4:30 pm 
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Hammy wrote:
Ever done Extemp at all in the past three years? There's almost always at least one medicare/social security question at each tournament.


I did do extemp this year. Our club comprised about half of the region's extempers, and this whole year (I did it at 2 qualifiers and regionals) I saw zero topics pertaining to anything medical or anything about welfare programs.

Anyways, I was meaning more from a debate standpoint. If this is about getting the newest topic, I think SS/Medicare/aid wins . Ag has a bit of overlap with Environment and there might be a few competitors and a good number of timers that have

Hammy wrote:
I do see what you're saying, but it would still be educational for those who didn't debate CJS year. Plus, the threat of frivolous T-presses would probably limit the scope to simply court procedures which, while still relevant, could get boring fast.


Either way, I still don't like it. If it doesn't overlap, then it's boring (as Simon said, it's like CJS without the fun parts). I'd vote for this resolution in two years maybe, but not this year. I want something totally fresh.

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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 5:05 pm 
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mountain dude wrote:
After some consideration I am voting A, mainly because Ag policy is just so awesome. It includes way more than just the farm bill (which is what the NCFCA site said), just look at the USDA website.

Same here for a few reasons. 1) It is a unique and fresh resolution. I know some might claim their is overlap with the environment year but I think it would be broad enough this wouldn't be a problem. Plus the environmental resolution was 5 years ago (I know I wasn't around to debate or time then)! 2) Resolution A has the least bias of all the resolutions this year as I'd imagine the judges wouldn’t have nearly as much of an opinion on agricultural policy as the other resolutions making it easier to debate as both AFF and NEG (it won’t be one sided). Imagine having to debate AGAINST reforming, say, Obama Care (I know someone would find a way to make it topical SOMEHOW if we had resolution C even if it technically wasn't). Ugh! Finally 3) A would still be very educational as I don't think agricultural policy is something most of us can say we are authorities or experts on! Right? I certainly am not.

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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 5:09 pm 
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Seabass00 wrote:
I know someone would find a way to make it topical SOMEHOW if we had resolution C even if it technically wasn't


Obamacare did expand medicaid and did several other things which are totally topical under this, which is ultimately why I'm voting A.

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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 5:21 pm 
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The deadline for voting is Tonight at midnight (at least, the NCFCA website says "before May 27th" so make sure you get your vote in today. I've known lots of people to miss the deadline in the past because it is so brief.
I'm rooting for Agriculture all the way (as, from what I've seen, many other coaches and long-time debaters are as well). I feel like a bunch of people will discount it thinking "are we gonna talk about labelling vegetables all year long?" but it really should be a lot more in-depth than that and would be quite educational.
Also, while Environmental year was 5 years ago, you would have have to have been debating it when you were in 8th grade if you are still around this year, and I doubt that the majority were (and considering the more relative proximity of Criminal Justice Year it seems less of an issue).

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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 11:17 pm 
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JohnMarkPorter1 wrote:
you would have have to have been debating it when you were in 8th grade


Actually, 6th grade. This would be your seventh year (environment, russia, CJS, UN, election law, middle east, hopefully Ag) so you'd have had to start in 6th grade.

The most you'd see would be maybe a half dozen people who are old for their grade or somebody who took an extra year (we had an 8th year R5er once, but that's the most I know of; one of my friends might come back for a seventh year next year.

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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2015 5:07 am 
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mountain dude wrote:
JohnMarkPorter1 wrote:
you would have have to have been debating it when you were in 8th grade


Actually, 6th grade. This would be your seventh year (environment, russia, CJS, UN, election law, middle east, hopefully Ag) so you'd have had to start in 6th grade.

The most you'd see would be maybe a half dozen people who are old for their grade or somebody who took an extra year (we had an 8th year R5er once, but that's the most I know of; one of my friends might come back for a seventh year next year.

I think that six years will be enough for me. :P

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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2015 7:48 pm 
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Hammy wrote:
I think that six years will be enough for me.

Seven years is a lot...I'd probably switch to LD just to shake things up or something.

Everybody listen to Razi. He's right (and awesome).

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