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 Post subject: Higher Ed Rez talk
PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:18 pm 
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This is really early but why not.

Since like 75% of you guys are alumni anyway (and do collegey stuff), and since our rez is about collegey stuff, do you guys have any [truths to] misconceptions about higher ed [how the system might work differently than we would otherwise think it would] that would be potentially beneficial to know [for researching and stuff not irl]?

Maybe this will be useful. maybe not.

Also, would dual credit reforms fall under the res?

Thanks--- :)

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 Post subject: Re: Higher Ed Rez talk
PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 12:34 am 
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Hermione's smart friend
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Happy to weigh in if you have more specific questions - in progress on my PhD, been in higher ed ~10 years, and preparing for an academic career. Has a resolution wording been settled on? Want to post it here?

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 Post subject: Re: Higher Ed Rez talk
PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 6:58 pm 
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Thanks!

So far I have one question,
I know that the government (state and feds) regulate the higher ed system and impose regulations on them, but the articles I read didn't really mention any regulation of the part of the student.

As a student, was is the extent of federal or state regulation? [if any at all I have absolutely no concept of it]
(This probably varies from state to state and school to school but still helpful to get an idea for)



--------
Oh also as far as the rez goes, it hasn't been posted to their website yet, this version was posted to their facebook page recently and will suffice till then with these kinds of questions. No top talk yet I guess.

" Resolved: The United States should significantly reform its policies regarding higher education."

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 Post subject: Re: Higher Ed Rez talk
PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 11:59 pm 
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Location: I'm not lost! I'm locationally challenged. -John M. Ford
InfiniteUnderscores wrote:
the articles I read didn't really mention any regulation of the part of the student.

That's because there aren't. You have honor codes and whatnot placed on students by the university (thou shalt not cheat, thou shalt not be a bad representation of our university, thou shalt not wear pajamas to the dining hall (which I can say personally was not enforced)), but otherwise you're just adults and can do whatever you want.

The only real exception is if you're receiving some sort of federal scholarships/financial aid which is contingent on something, like not getting a drug conviction.

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 Post subject: Re: Higher Ed Rez talk
PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:39 am 
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Sharkfin wrote:
InfiniteUnderscores wrote:
the articles I read didn't really mention any regulation of the part of the student.

That's because there aren't. You have honor codes and whatnot placed on students by the university (thou shalt not cheat, thou shalt not be a bad representation of our university, thou shalt not wear pajamas to the dining hall (which I can say personally was not enforced)), but otherwise you're just adults and can do whatever you want.

The only real exception is if you're receiving some sort of federal scholarships/financial aid which is contingent on something, like not getting a drug conviction.



I was more wondering from the admissions side of things [like if there were requirements], but this is good too.
On the same topic, does the gov [fed or state] have the ability to prevent someone from attending school? Like, besides arresting them and putting them in jail.

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 Post subject: Re: Higher Ed Rez talk
PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:00 am 
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Hermione's smart friend
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Yep, adding to what Sharkfin said, my immediate thought was also conduct requirements tied to federal aid - namely, if you are convicted of a drug crime (specifically drugs, which is notable), you can no longer receive certain federal grants or scholarships and may be required to pay back what you've already received. To answer your follow-up, no, the federal government generally cannot and does not weigh in on admissions. This is why even people without legal papers can often enroll in US state universities, and even receive financial aid and in-state tuition. Requirements for admission are set by the school and influenced by the state. Universities can choose not to admit someone for many, many reasons. Having a criminal record absolutely does not (and should not) preclude you from higher education. I have attended classes, in a prison, through a program that specifically seeks to educate those who are incarcerated. This could be a cool area to investigate further - a case related to providing higher education to the incarcerated/formerly incarcerated would hook me quickly, or a case that changed the drug crime funding rules. There are several university debate programs that sponsor prison debate programs, too, which are awesome.

Most universities are attuned to state, not federal laws, and care mostly because they receive state funding. You'll note a lot of Department of Ed materials specifically note they do not accredit or otherwise really regulate major universities. Private universities like Harvard that have massive endowments may ignore some of these state laws, and smaller private universities, like a number of Christian ones, may eschew state funding altogether, including aid for students, if it's tied to conduct rules like Title IX. As Title IX is a federal law, that might be one avenue of exploration.

As a regular undergrad student, you'll likely not be aware of most of the state/federal/local administrative machinations of universities. As Sharkfin notes, student conduct codes, dorm rules, and other university-specific regulations hold far more of your attention. I can't say the no pajamas in dining halls is a common rule though, at least based on how my students come to class. :P But yes, overall you are treated as an adult who is expected to regulate your own actions, minus some particularities in dorms and classrooms. Remember too, that as state-funded properties, state universities are very open to the public, especially libraries and unions which are clearly public spaces. So not everyone a university is dealing with is an enrolled student, and members of the public have not consented to things like student codes.

That's quite the wide-open resolution, as is NCFCA tradition. I'm intrigued by the lack of actor (generally USFG), and would encourage you to look at national accrediting agencies as possible actors under this wording. The 50-states plan/CP will also be big this year, I feel, and as a judge I'd be willing to listen to an argument that changing less than 50 states' policies is also valid (26 or more? it's open to discussion re: significantly). I could even see an argument for changing one large system, like making a change to all California/New York state schools, as substantial if a decent modeling argument can be made (e.g., California makes a change to its ~30 schools that other states will follow).

Here's a couple of links I think will be helpful in generating case ideas:
https://www.rit.edu/fa/grms/fed-laws-by-alphabet
http://www.higheredcompliance.org/matrix/

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"What happened to your apartment?"
"I filled it with playpen balls!"
"I...what? Why?"
"Because we're grown-ups now, and it's our turn to decide what that means."
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