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Forum locked  This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 18 posts ] 
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:05 pm 
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A team just won a tournament with a case that redirects a completely unadvocated amount of $$ from one program to another.

I'm trying to come up with a good argument against the whole specific redirect thing. I'm not looking for an advocacy press... more like some way to use this against them. Like a CP to redirect $16 mil instead of $15 mil.

Any ideas?

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:32 pm 
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What is the case?

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:12 pm 
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thehomeschooler wrote:
What is the case?

Microloans. The case redirects $15M from democracy aid to Finca.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:27 am 
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What funds do they cut? Do they specify?

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:41 am 
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Just curious, why would you need anything more than an Advocacy press?

No advocacy = No way of knowing that the specified amount of money is enough = Burden of Proof under Solvency is unmet.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 2:22 am 
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Wilberforce wrote:
Just curious, why would you need anything more than an Advocacy press?

No advocacy = No way of knowing that the specified amount of money is enough = Burden of Proof under Solvency is unmet.

Enough? The case doesn't derive solvency from having "enough" money. The organization itself takes donations in increments of $20.

Quote:
What funds do they cut? Do they specify?

Yeah, they specify a budget item.. the total item is worth about $31 million, but I don't remember exactly what it was called. And yes, this democracy aid they cut is specific to Russia.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 2:43 am 
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^Ah, so they cut democracy aid. Do they cut funds to NGOs? ::crossesfingers::

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 3:01 am 
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thehomeschooler wrote:
^Ah, so they cut democracy aid. Do they cut funds to NGOs? ::crossesfingers::

I don't know. To clarify, I merely watched finals (didn't compete), and the negative didn't get much into specifics.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 6:36 pm 
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Sharkfin wrote:
Enough? The case doesn't derive solvency from having "enough" money. The organization itself takes donations in increments of $20.
Hmmm...I've read this post 3 times and I'm still confused about what you're trying to say. :) Perhaps you can enlighten me. What are the advantages of the case? Are they linear?

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:27 am 
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Wilberforce wrote:
Sharkfin wrote:
Enough? The case doesn't derive solvency from having "enough" money. The organization itself takes donations in increments of $20.
Hmmm...I've read this post 3 times and I'm still confused about what you're trying to say. :) Perhaps you can enlighten me. What are the advantages of the case? Are they linear?

Alright. So this case gives $15mil to a non-profit called FINCA, which, in turn, gives out microloans to Russians. The case doesn't claim to give "enough money" to FINCA, merely that the money they give will better the lives of Russians.

The specific $15mil is completely unadvocated and has no apparent logic: I'm trying to find a way to turn that CX question of "So you just pulled the $15mil number out of your head?" into an argument.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:12 pm 
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CPing to redirect $20 mn or $30 mn would be an interesting option, though you'd have a tough theory fight on your hands. I honestly have no clue how you would establish competitiveness. ;)

On the other hand, if none of their harms/solvency/advantages are specific to $15 mn, you can turn all their evidence into backup for your CP, and claim better solvency as an advantage.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:43 am 
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Sharkfin wrote:
The case doesn't claim to give "enough money" to FINCA, merely that the money they give will better the lives of Russians.

As a British philosopher once said: "Against a great evil, a small solution does not provide a small benefit -- it provides no benefit at all."

Bam.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:17 am 
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thehomeschooler wrote:
Sharkfin wrote:
The case doesn't claim to give "enough money" to FINCA, merely that the money they give will better the lives of Russians.

As a British philosopher once said: "Against a great evil, a small solution does not provide a small benefit -- it provides no benefit at all."

Bam.

Which philosopher was that? Just curious because I don't see the logic behind that statement. If you have a small solution (fix 1% of the problem), you have a small benefit (1%). Of course, if you could somehow link it to masking DA... the quote could have some merit. ;)

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:54 pm 
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OppositeWay wrote:
Which philosopher was that?

John Stuart Mill. As quoted by Dr. Joseph Rotblat, when referring to nonproliferation.
OppositeWay wrote:
I don't see the logic behind that statement.

You have twenty guns pointed at your face. You unload one of them and claim that you're safe. Fail.

I didn't say "partial solutions" failed -- I said "small" solutions shouldn't be justified. I talked with a parent judge that I know, and they said it sounds like a "cop-out" to say: "Well, our plan saves two out of the five hundred people that are dying :D ". I do, too. That's not how congress works -- stike that, it's not how congress is supposed to work.
OppositeWay wrote:
If you have a small solution (fix 1% of the problem), you have a small benefit (1%).

That's an absolutely horrible justification for a plan. One could say that discussing whether or not a 1% solution is warranted is a total waste of a debate round. Or any debate -- period.
OppositeWay wrote:
Of course, if you could somehow link it to masking DA... the quote could have some merit.

Totally. We waste enough mental resources in a debate on the proposed solution to outweigh any of the solution's benefits.

And that's a little bit of an overstatement -- but you get my point.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:42 am 
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Ahhh... your point makes more sense now. You're saying that a small solution that claims to solve a bigger solution is equivalent (or worse than) no solution at all. You're totally right about that. Plans claim massive advantages after doing essentially nothing bug me, and, as you mentioned, they also bug judges. However, I see no problem with plans that say "we're going to take care of Y% of problem X."

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:36 pm 
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OppositeWay wrote:
I see no problem with plans that say "we're going to take care of Y% of problem X."

Conceded. The key is to remember not to get abusive with it :)

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:33 pm 
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Wilberforce wrote:
Just curious, why would you need anything more than an Advocacy press?

Because if you run an advocacy press against me you'll get 9 carded RVIs saying that you destroy education, debatability, affirmative advocacy, ground, etc, etc

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 4:03 am 
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This sounds like my case. But we cut all aid to Russia, and redirect it to MFI's.

And yes, we haz advocacy.

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Caleb Howell (Alumnus), former President of In Veritate Victoria (Derby, KS).


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