homeschool debate | Forums Wiki

HomeSchoolDebate

Speech and Debate Resources and Community
Forums      Wiki
It is currently Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:27 pm
Not a member? Guests can only see part of the forums. To see the whole thing (and add your voice!), just register a free account by following these steps.

All times are UTC+01:00




Forum locked  This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 7 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: "shouldn't say so."
PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:28 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:00 am
Posts: 1406
Home Schooled: Yes
Location: King's College, Manhattan, NYC
What's the best way to set up an argument to the effect that "gov/opp may be right, but we shouldn't say so." For example (I got this example from some article), for a res "THBT Capitalism caused 9/11", Gov ran fact stuff, but Opp argued that it doesn't matter if the Res is true, because we shouldn't SAY that the res is true (even if it is).

I'm thinking that the best way to present something like that would be in critique format, right?

But how exactly should it be set up? I mean, how do you garner any impact from it? If the Res (in the example) is true, then what's the bad thing in saying it? Is it because in the long-term, capitalism would benefit us more (utilitarianism good)? Is that the kind of thing a "shouldn't say so" critique would have to rely on?

_________________
Two hundred degrees, that's why they call me Mr. Fahrenheit.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: "shouldn't say so."
PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:39 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 9:13 pm
Posts: 535
Home Schooled: Yes
Location: California
I'm not sure why you would want to run this type of argument. Really, the only plausible type of argument I see is one based in tricot. You could argue that fact debate in someway is inherently bad. Favoring the government, forces the debate to be dependent on evidence, lack of clash in argumentation, it inherently places blame, etc. From there, I think you would have legitimate ground to argue that the debate should be put through a test of value, or policy.

The impacts that you mentioned rely on fiat debate. You cannot really argue that supporting the res is bad because in the long run capitalism would/has benefitted us more.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: "shouldn't say so."
PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 10:29 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:00 am
Posts: 1406
Home Schooled: Yes
Location: King's College, Manhattan, NYC
Mainly I'm just curious about it. I can understand how someone would run theory, critiques, and performance stuff, but this thing is still confusing to me.

I see your point about trichot; I read an article about fact debate that has those points, but it's not quite the same.

_________________
Two hundred degrees, that's why they call me Mr. Fahrenheit.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: "shouldn't say so."
PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:28 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:22 pm
Posts: 1389
Home Schooled: Yes
Location: Austin, TX
I'd call it a little white lies DA that links from the rez. It's not a critique because you are saying "the rez has bad impacts WHEN it is true, and greater good means we must force ourselves not to believe it/white lie to the populace about it".

So if the rez was "this house believes your girlfriend is fat", you'd say "even if she is, we shouldn't say that because it'd cause her to be anorexic". Link is resolution, not the case itself.

Ultimately I think it's just a normal old argument prepped against the rez.

_________________
Upside Down Debate. The book that teaches you the deeper why of debate, from the ground up.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: "shouldn't say so."
PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:18 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2008 2:35 pm
Posts: 2441
Home Schooled: Yes
Location: Omaha, NE
My partner at I ran a similar K in the quarters at Creighton.
We were neg: "TH believes childhood obesity is an epidemic in need of a cure"

We basically said that applying the word "epidemic" to things that aren't infectious definitions (the dictionary def) takes away the gravity of the word epidemic. This guts our ability to deal with real epidemics when the occur. Obviously, we had a link story, but I don't remember it atm.

In a round yesterday we ran a K (but called it a C-Cont) again...
We were neg: "TH believes the group known as "Anonymous" is a terrorist organization"
Aff defined anonymous as PETA (we also had a chat about definitions)

Of course we started off with the statement that "fiat is an allusion, language shapes reality." Then we said that "terrorist" is a marginalizing term, and when you apply it to a relatively peaceful group you create a self-fulfilling prophecy. When you You create an "other" within US society, marginalizing both PETA and the environmentalist movement. When the happens, they see they can't get their point across via peaceful means, so they resort to legitimate terrorist activities. This is called labeling theory in criminal justice.

_________________
-Bryan
Co-Founder of Olympus Forensics

Google it, we're the second link that pops up. We're pretty proud of that.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: "shouldn't say so."
PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 7:44 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:00 am
Posts: 1406
Home Schooled: Yes
Location: King's College, Manhattan, NYC
What I don't understand is why you didn't argue that "Anonymous" clearly means /b/.

_________________
Two hundred degrees, that's why they call me Mr. Fahrenheit.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: "shouldn't say so."
PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 11:13 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2008 2:35 pm
Posts: 2441
Home Schooled: Yes
Location: Omaha, NE
willmalson wrote:
What I don't understand is why you didn't argue that "Anonymous" clearly means /b/.

We did. Running that K doesn't preclude on-case answers.

_________________
-Bryan
Co-Founder of Olympus Forensics

Google it, we're the second link that pops up. We're pretty proud of that.


Top
   
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Forum locked  This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 7 posts ] 

All times are UTC+01:00


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited