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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 1:32 pm 
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The Ginga Ninja wrote:
Taking the piece for yourself as GM is a jerk move. We're fighting monumental odds as it is. At least be an unbiased GM.

Public Notice: The Triforce Piece was never publicly up for grabs. I would refer you back to a rule stated concerning the Triforce pieces:

Hammy wrote:
If a Triforce holder dies then the Triforce is passed to whomever killed the holder.

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-Joshua
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 1:37 pm 
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The Skyloftians grew very unhappy, if only they had done something to halt their dark fate.

anorton (Eldin) died. He was good.
SuperK1 (Groose) died. He was good.

The Gate of Time is open.

A day phase begins. It ends Monday morning at 8:00.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 4:17 pm 
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Hammy wrote:
The Ginga Ninja wrote:
Taking the piece for yourself as GM is a jerk move. We're fighting monumental odds as it is. At least be an unbiased GM.

Public Notice: The Triforce Piece was never publicly up for grabs. I would refer you back to a rule stated concerning the Triforce pieces:

Hammy wrote:
If a Triforce holder dies then the Triforce is passed to whomever killed the holder.


Yes, I'm aware of that rule. I know it wasn't up for grabs. That doesn't negate the fact that you, as GM, holding infinite knowledge about the game, are now in possession of a double nightkill.

Not cool.

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"Everything in this world is either a potato... or not a potato."


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 4:18 pm 
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Well, obviously, all we can try to do today is lynch Hammy. So... Hammy.

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"Everything in this world is either a potato... or not a potato."


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 4:31 pm 
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In case it sparks an idea in anyone, here's how Demise is defeated in the game.

1.) Link follows Demise back in time through the Gate of Time.
2.) Link follows Demise into an alternate dimension in the Sky, where they fight on top of clouds.
3.) Link and Demise beat each other up with swords.
4.) Link and Demise catch lightning on their swords and throw it at each other.
5.) Link knocks over Demise and proceeds to stab him straight through the heart with a sword coated in lightning.
6.) Demise dies.

It is important to note that Link possesses the entire Triforce at this point... it is possible that Hammy overlooked the problem of the Neutral WC and the balance of the game and is requiring the use of the Ultimate Triforce Kill to take him down. However, as mentioned before, this would be complete and utter boloney, as the only way to acquire a Triforce piece is to kill its holder, and Demise killed a Triforce piece and took the piece for himself; which means he can only be killed by killing him and taking the piece, which cannot be taken unless you kill him, which cannot be done without the piece. Which makes it so all Hammy had to do to win was kill one of the neutral Triforce pieces himself at some point in the game, and then he can't lose. So unless Hammy is being ridiculously unfair or ridiculously shortsighted, I still don't think we need to use the ultimate kill to take him down. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt for now and assume there's another way.

If, however, it turns out that Hammy is, in fact, requiring the use of the ultimate kill to defeat him, then we'll all need to have a real talk with him.

*Sharpens pitchfork*

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Benjamin Vincent, RII Alum
Biola University '21
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"Everything in this world is either a potato... or not a potato."


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 6:20 pm 
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Hint hint peoples.
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This is why we should officially ban GMs inserting themselves into their own games. Because it completely skews their incentives and allows them to run the game in a way to guarantee their side wins, due to them having all the power. (Sounds like a certain political situation lately *cough*riggingthedebates*cough*.)

Hammy's games have, up until this point, been very fun endeavors. (Yes, even the dumb one where there were no actual evil players.) And this one has been quite fun too, up until now. But he's crossed my line, and I'm pretty sure he's crossed yours too.

For reference sake, here's my PM conversation with Hammy on the issue.

Evan wrote:
Subject: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

Hammy wrote:
After a long and hard search, the mob finally found Ghirahim.

Mr. E. (Ghirahim) died. He was evil.

The Gate of Time is open.

A night phase begins. It ends tomorrow morning at 8:00.

Triforce piece please?

Edit: also close the gate of time.
Hammy wrote:
He didn't have a piece and you can only open the Gate of Time. ;)

Evan wrote:
Ok, look. I call mularkey.

If you take the triforce piece for yourself, and/or the only way to kill you is the ultimate triforce kill, that's complete and total BS, and you should give good the victory because we deserve it. There's literally no way good can win if either of those are the case. Even if you "officially" say evil won, it's a complete farce. Good has won, get over yourself. We will exterminate you even if your silly game mechanics won't allow us to "formally."

Hammy wrote:
Are you kidding? The good team has done terrible this game.

Evan wrote:
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

You're simply saying that because you're on the evil side and getting your butt handed to you right now. :roll: Yeah it took us some time to wipe your smarmy minions out, but we did it. We're on the verge of total victory, and if you have written the rules in such a way as to specifically prevent our victory, then you should know that's completely unfair, and I will probably boycott any games you run in the future. Not like you care, because you're Hammy and likely don't GAF, but it's my only way to really do anything if you rig this game. I'm upset not so much about this game as in you being dishonest and a cheater. That's more important than the game itself to me RN.


What Hammy is telling me by his actions is that he cares more about winning his own mafia game than being an upright, honest person and being a good sportsman. He will specifically rig the game mechanics in such a way to nearly guarantee a victory for himself just so he and Johnny can gloat over us.

Well, I've had it. If lynching him doesn't work, and we "lose" because of Hammy's faux "rules," I will officially be boycotting every game Hammy will ever run after this point. Because this is not so much about the fate of this game as it is about Hammy's personal character. Every other indication on this board shows him to be an honest, forthright, upstanding (and trolly :P ) guy, so if he wishes to live up to the name he's made for himself, then he needs to concede defeat immediately. This isn't a personal vendetta of mine as it is me calling the kettle black. If I see dishonesty and cheating, I won't hesitate to call it as such. And that's what Joshua has done this game.

I don't want to cause trouble or a ruckus, but when the situation calls for it, I cannot just sit idly by and let Hammy railroad us. Joshua, you're a great guy, but how you've decided to operate this game makes me question your motives and what you really care about. Please don't make the wrong choice and risk alienating me and possibly others over a game, for goodness sake.

Hammy

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 7:17 pm 
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Hey, no one said for sure that we need the ultra-kill, did they? You still might be able to lynch him.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 7:56 pm 
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Whoa whoa whoa. OK. Let's cool down a bit.

I understand your sentiment, Evan. I really do. And I agree that, if Hammy has indeed set it up so that the only way to kill him is to use the Ultimate Triforce Kill, then he has made a very big mistake that has made the game completely unfair for the majority of its players.

However, we need to remember a few things. First of all, Hammy inserting himself into the game is not a problem in and of itself. In fact I think it's rather fun in a way. The problem only comes in if he writes the rules in such a way as to give the mafia an unfair advantage simply because he's on their team, and we don't know for sure if that has happened. Secondly, we need to remember that we don't actually know if Hammy has done anything wrong. Like SuperK1 said, for all we know, lynching him could kill him, and we win. So we shouldn't overreact before we know the circumstances. Thirdly, it's quite possible Hammy could have made an honest mistake. Remember, there were only 2 mafia, plus Hammy, which is a pretty small number of mafia for a game this size. So it makes sense Hammy would have wanted to set up a mechanic to make it harder to kill him, especially because everyone knew he was evil from the get-go, so he didn't have any element of secrecy. He could have simply overlooked the fact that he was making the Good and Neutral WCs mutually exclusive. That's just a human mistake, not malicious intent. He could have easily not thought of the fact that making the UTK the only way to kill him would guarantee evil victory if he killed just one Triforce piece. Honestly, I never would have thought of that myself if it weren't for the highly unusual circumstances we find ourselves in at this point in the game.

Finally, we need to try to be civil toward one another. This is a game, people. Yes, it's important to defend principles of fairness in order to make games like this work. But it's also important to value our character more than the game. We should not allow competitiveness to skew our perspective and lead us to be rash and unreasonable. I'm sure Hammy has done his absolute best to make this game fun for all parties. And I have to commend both the good and evil teams for their performance this game. Despite being few in numbers, the evil team did an excellent job misleading the good team for the first few phases of the game, and nearly cinched their victory very early on. And the good team did an admirable job (if I do say so myself) coming back against the odds and navigating confusing game mechanics and an early lead by the evil team to even things out close to the end. Now we're at endgame, and we need to settle down a little bit and be reasonable with each other. I share Evan's sentiment that it would be wrong for Hammy to set up the mechanics to give evil an advantage simply because he's "on their side." But I also know that such behavior would be completely inconsistent with all my personal experience with Joshua, and I believe he should be given the benefit of the doubt.

All that to say... let's try to address this issue calmly and respectfully, and enjoy the rest of this game; I, for one, have found this to be a very fun game, and have enjoyed matching wits with very worthy adversaries on the evil team. Fighting against the odds is always more fun anyway.

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Benjamin Vincent, RII Alum
Biola University '21
www.lifeinthesunrise.com

"Everything in this world is either a potato... or not a potato."


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 11:04 pm 
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Hint hint peoples.
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Ok I was super salty this morning, and for that I apologize. Here's the shakedown:

WHAT I DON'T STAND BY: Hammy is a scoundrel/my overly harsh rhetoric. :lol:

WHAT I DO STAND BY: I still feel, whether by accident or trollish/malicious intent, Hammy has unfairly divided ground in this game with the mechanics. Good should win because we've killed all the mafs and know who the last one is. If we're forced to lynch VoR that'd be unfair since we promised to protect him. Not to mention, we don't know if we can claim the Triforce piece from Hammy after this phase, or even if he'll actually die. And if Hammy claims a BS victory due to his mechanics, I will probably still decline to participate in any of his future mafia games. Because I am getting tired of BS mechanics constructed to make life as hard as possible for a given side. ;)

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As the deer pants for the water brooks, so pants my soul for You, O God. -Psalm 42:1


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 11:36 pm 
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Hey, if y'all could vote for Hammy so we can get his Triforce piece... that'd be great.

Pretty sure we don't need to debate about this one.

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Benjamin Vincent, RII Alum
Biola University '21
www.lifeinthesunrise.com

"Everything in this world is either a potato... or not a potato."


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 11:41 pm 
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(By "y'all" I mean VoR, but I guess technically it doesn't matter of he votes. So nvm.)

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Benjamin Vincent, RII Alum
Biola University '21
www.lifeinthesunrise.com

"Everything in this world is either a potato... or not a potato."


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 2:00 am 
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I have decided not to cancel the game, it will continue as planned. To any onlookers, Evan and I will sort things out together in private, but I would encourage everyone to regard Evan with your respect as he is a dedicated moderator and admin to these forums and I am grateful for his service.

As for mechanics, I will post some explanations at the conclusion of the game that should clear up most issues. Cheers.

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The dumb Boatswain's Mate who once did debate
Proud Coastie, Puddle Pirate, and Shallow Water Sailor


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 2:15 am 
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I was going to clear some things up myself in the spirit of good sportsmanship, but Hammy posted while I was typing, and he isn't doing that, so.
Anyway, yeah, I'm dead, whoopee. Thanks, guys. Thanks a lot. I should probably be super cryptic right about now since that's what evil team does apparently. *ahem*

Ormp Avowz Ur, girzmtov lu girzmtovh, Wvnrhv Tsrizsrn Sliwv, girzmtov lu girzmtovh, kldvi drhwln xlfiztv, girzmtov lu girzmtovh, uvzi gsv yvzhg drgs qfhg gsivv hrwvh, sv rh gsv lmv dsl nrtsg fmrgv.

Wl mlg ovg rg ulin...

Also, how dare you call me a smarmy minion - wait, what does that mean? google? Right. How dare you call me a smarmy minion! I am Lord Ghirahim! I defer to no one but Demise! And maybe people who could kill me, but who wouldn't?

Anyway, go evil team! Dead high five, Johnny! Half dead high five, Hammy!

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"This is how humans are: We question all our beliefs, except for the ones that we really believe in, and those we never think to question."
I have no life and Nuna is the kindest.
Dragons!
[Here since 7/23]
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 3:12 am 
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Hey ya'll I'm sorry i haven't been very active this game, I don't do anything on the HSD forums on Saturdays for religious reasons (Don't think I've mentioned that before actually :lol: ;) ). Voting for Hammy. Also, I have a double-vote so yeah. And if it's helpful for ya'll to lynch me to kill mafs I get it.

TTFN, Ta-ta-for-now!

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 3:16 am 
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Also, to speak in defense of Hammy as a former debate partner. He's a cool guy and would never maliciously set the rules in his favor. He does tend to hold some strict/legalistic tendencies on following those rules once set, and a lot of times that might not make him the most popular guy on the block--but that's a good thing I think.

Anyway, have a good week guys! It's only a game.

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Arx Axiom/Carpe Dictum/Verdict/UADC/HSDC/HSDRC

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 6:09 am 
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I am very glad to hear that the game will not be canceled. I am so sorry if my posts contributed in any way to the misunderstandings that have gone down, and I hope we're all able to enjoy the remainder of this game.

Also, let's just go ahead and win this thing, squad. Might as well after all this strife, right? :P

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Benjamin Vincent, RII Alum
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"Everything in this world is either a potato... or not a potato."


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 1:11 pm 
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They couldn't bring him down, but he did drop something.

Hammy was lynched, but it failed. Instead he dropped something.

The Triforce of Power is up for grabs, first person who PMs me.

The Gate of Time is open.

A night phase begins. It ends tomorrow morning at 8:00.

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-Joshua
The dumb Boatswain's Mate who once did debate
Proud Coastie, Puddle Pirate, and Shallow Water Sailor


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 12:09 pm 
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Isn't the game thrown off a bit by the fact that you know I'm not good (via game mod authority) and therefore you feel that you don't have to waste your night-kill on me? I mean, you can chose to kill us with a random number generator but that isn't quite as fun either because it takes all the strategy out too. IDK

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Arx Axiom/Carpe Dictum/Verdict/UADC/HSDC/HSDRC

2011-12 l Porter/Thomason, Light/Porter
2012-13 l Bailey/Porter
2013-14 l Bailey/Porter
2014-15 l Folkert/Porter

2015-16 I Childs/Porter


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 6:13 pm 
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Also, if someone PMed me this morning (which I think they did, I get e-mail notifications to my regular mail) and I didn't reply it's because I haven't seen it because my PM inbox filled up and I've had to clear a bunch out.

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John Mark Porter, Alumni
Arx Axiom/Carpe Dictum/Verdict/UADC/HSDC/HSDRC

2011-12 l Porter/Thomason, Light/Porter
2012-13 l Bailey/Porter
2013-14 l Bailey/Porter
2014-15 l Folkert/Porter

2015-16 I Childs/Porter


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 4:58 pm 
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Guys... I think Hammy got abducted by aliens.

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Biola University '21
www.lifeinthesunrise.com

"Everything in this world is either a potato... or not a potato."


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